God's Purpose For Your Life - Interview with Kelly Needham

welcome back to another episode of

Christian Natural Health today I'm

excited to have Kelly Needham with us

Kelly is a servant of Jesus Christ a

student of the Bible and CEO of her home

where she lives with her husband Jimmy

and their five children she's the author

of friendish reclaiming real friendship

and culture of confusion and has been a

contributing author to many other books

including faithful and beautifully

distinct she has served on the staff of

multiple churches serving in youth

college and women's ministry Kelly

currently co-leads a women's teaching

program training women to accurately

handle the word of Truth and co-host a

podcast clearly with Jimmy and Kelly

Needham whether writing or speaking

Kelly's aim is to convince as many

people as possible that nothing compares

to knowing Jesus welcome Kelly thanks

for joining us

thanks so much for having me Lauren I'm

happy to be here yeah so we're talking

today about the concept of purpose so

tell us a little bit about your journey

with this concept of finding God's

purpose for your life and how it's maybe

evolved over the years sure well you

know like a lot of people in high school

and college I had a lot of big goals and

aspirations for my life and as somebody

who've been following Jesus really

wholeheartedly and passionately since

junior high I had a lot of other youth

leaders speaking that into me like God's

gonna do big things through your life

and

um that's great and then I got married

pretty young to a man named Jimmy who

then we kind of had a curveball his

music career took off after that so we

were gonna both do like very ordinary

ordinary jobs in the world of Finance or

teaching all sorts of things and then

all of a sudden our life is just full of

interviews and TV shows and concerts and

touring

yeah it was very fun

but I was very much the behind the

scenes role of that whole new world so

with my finance degree I very naturally

fell into the role of management I

oversaw our merchandise I did the tour

planning and travel and all of that so

here you know me with the Big Dreams in

my heart and like a sense of you know

calling on my life I'm just in the

behind the scenes world I feel like just

to tag along to this whole Ministry that

seems important every night people are

telling me how my husband's music has

changed their life and I'm like that's

great yeah what about uh this um T-shirt

that you just bought that's really

nicely folded and has no wrinkles in it

like is that doing anything for you

really in that space that I you know I

think just by comparison that I was just

in that world I began to really question

what does it mean to have a purposeful

life is this my purpose am I like in

Waiting season is this like a holding

cell for like when I get to do the cool

things later and I really began to

wrestle with this idea then and fight

for what truths can I hold on to to help

me in this season

and so what truths did you come to that

helped you yeah

well the biggest one is probably this

um through the ups and downs of all of

that being stripped of work that felt

meaningful right I'm doing very

doesn't seem important work I began to

continue to meet with God in his word

and talk to him in prayer and realize

he was still there with me and a

question kind of bubbled up in my heart

that I feel like God has asked me many

times but it was it just came up in that

season and felt like him he was just

looking at me asking the question am I

still enough for you

am I still enough for you even when you

don't have the types of verbs that you

want to do in your life right now I was

like wow you are still enough that's

really why I'm in this whole thing

that's what Jesus came to do is remove

all the barriers for us to get to God it

wasn't so that we could do great things

for God it was so that we could know God

that really is the thing that is what

it's about and it so it was interesting

to realize when all my preferred verbs

are Stripped Away I still have the thing

I was made for and so what bubbled up in

that season was this truth my purpose is

not something that I do my purpose is a

person

and he's with me all the time I don't my

purpose isn't tied to things that I do

or don't do it's tied to a noun and so

as long as I'm breathing and I get to

know him my life is full of immense

purpose and that began to really

stabilize me and Infuse my life with

meaning

even when eventually I wrote books and

did other things but you know just

because you get to do cool things

I still have to go home and do the

laundry and talk to my neighbors and

take care of my kids and those days and

those moments continue to have as much

meaning as the visible ones because

I now was connecting my heart to my

purpose is a is a noun my purpose is a

person not something that I do beautiful

so I listened to a lot of Andrew Wommack

ministries and I remember the story that

he told that was about a woman who had

written him who was in solitary

confinement because she committed a

crime and she was never going to get out

like this was going to be her her life

and there she was suicidal at the time

she listened to his message which was

exactly what you're saying that our

purpose is to praise God and to know him

and to have fellowship with him and she

suddenly felt that even alone when there

was nobody that she could touch she had

joy and she had peace because she had

fellowship with her Creator and she

understood what she was made for I love

that

so we're so much of our culture I feel

like especially the youth culture when

you're growing up the idea of like you

should do big things like what you're

talking about what do we do with that

feeling so there's this piece of we you

know we're enough and God is enough and

the relationship is enough but then what

you know is there right okay but what am

I supposed to do next is it should I

just like exist and praise God and not

work early I mean yeah

absolutely I think you know the

following questions that come from that

is what do I do with my longings to do

great things

um and those are really there's four

really particular longings I address uh

in this new book that I just released

that I think are human longings I think

they're good

um the desire to be great the desire to

be seen the desire to make an impact

like that your life would make a

difference and then the desire to have

something unique to do that I want

something that's unique to me to do and

I think all of those longings are good I

actually don't think that they're wrong

uh I think that they're just misplaced

for a lot of us we're trying to answer

all those questions meet all those

longings with us at the center of the

equation

uh I need to do great things I need to

be seen my effort and mine alone needs

to make an impact and I need to figure

out my unique thing that I was made to

do and I'm going to go do all that and

it keeps us in this protagonist role

this this central figure role and it it

puts a lot of pressure on us which is

why I think we have a hard time resting

that's why we have a hard time taking

time off of our work because we're so

starved for meaning and significance uh

that we put ourselves into work mode

because we've got to achieve it but when

you take yourself out of the central

main character role and let God take

that place in your life okay

my uh hunger for greatness is going to

come through him what does that look

like how do I attach this meaning you

know this this desire to be great or to

be seen to a person and you see that

struggle with all of Jesus followers All

Through the Bible you see the disciples

come up who's going to be the greatest

in the Kingdom right they want to know

it's an age-old desire and Jesus doesn't

rebuke them he does not look at them and

say stop trying to be great that's the

wrong way instead he says I want true

greatness for you and in one moment when

they ask this question Jesus picks up a

child and says this is what it means to

be great and I think what he's getting

at is that children by their very nature

are recipients they receive everything

right they have food because someone

else buys it for them and gives it to

them and prepares it for them they have

somewhere to sleep because someone else

made space for that and they're happy

with it they're like great I'll be a

recipient in the relationship

and I think true greatness comes when

we're able to take up that role

ourselves and go you know what God is

the contributor in the world Jesus said

apart from me you can do nothing am I

willing to believe that statement and

say my work on its own can't do anything

but his can am I willing to be a

recipient in this relationship am I

willing to serve the great one

and as I do I'll actually tap into true

greatness but it's going to come through

someone else ultimately that greatness

is going to be something shared with me

not something I possess within myself so

I think the longings are good and uh

have outworkings in our day-to-day

activities I think that

as we find our purpose to be a person it

should produce a life full of hard work

but not because the work gives us

meaning because it's an overflow of the

meaning we already have

totally so it sounds like you're talking

about kind of Shifting the starting

place but once you have that place of

fellowship with the father and

sufficiency in him what do we do with

you know God's Place dreams and Desires

in us as you keep kind of alluding to so

where do we go from there like let's

once we get to this place of feeling

like we are enough and it is enough but

he also has good works set aside for us

in advance how do we need a point B at

that point right well I think it comes

back to what is driving my activity

what is uh the main goal is the main

goal my dream or my passion or is it

Jesus and I don't think that means we

squash the dream or the passion I think

God is is not um

he's not out to just be mean to us and

go let me give you a passion for this

thing so that I can continually squash

it and make you just right in a

miserable space but if we read our Bible

we know that there are a lot of people

that follow him that are dying to uh all

sorts of preferences along the way and

and ultimately so that more fruitfulness

will come from their lives it's it's uh

we know that there's cost baked into

following Jesus he said to himself

but if my dream or my passion is what I

live for it is like I get up in the

morning because of this passion

then that's always going to control us

it's always going to be our lord it's

going to essentially become a type of

idol even something as good as ministry

as something as good as doing great

things for God in the world that

actually I think can take God's place

that you actually like doing things for

God more than you like God himself and

that's really dangerous and subtle

but if we wake up and go I live for

Jesus then we're actually able to do the

very basic command of the Christian Life

where he says follow me

and I think that's what those verses

like in Ephesians 2 10 there's good work

set before us or Hebrews 12 says that

there's a race to run but it says it's

the race set before us to run you know

it's not the race weeness like curate

that God is going before us preparing

good works for us to do

and our only real command is not to

figure out how to live our dream uh how

to achieve our purpose it's just follow

me will you wake up in the morning and

follow me and do the good works I set

before you and which like for me today

is to enjoy this conversation with you

and I've prayed and asked God to help my

words be as clear and helpful as

possible but then the rest of my day is

also going to include caring for a sick

child I have a sick kiddo downstairs

it's like that's just as much of a good

work set before me it requires a

different set of skills and maybe a

different set of things I don't like as

much and I think it's okay to admit that

these are not my favorite verbs God

right you said them before me to do

today would you help me to do this and

and that all comes from am I following a

person or am I following a passion and I

think if we follow a passion it's gonna

ultimately enslave us to our work and

actually blind our eyes from some of the

good works that God is actually setting

in front of us because we don't perceive

them to be the ones that we really want

to do or feel called to do and so we

feel closed off to them

so there was a lot of good work in front

of us but I think God does more of that

setting in front of us than we think

it's less about our strategy and more

about his great strategy for our lives

holy smokes popping into my head a

couple of things as you were talking

about one of them was the verse that

says whatever you do unto the glory of

God no matter what it is even if it's

something mundane and Tiny that's right

I just finished this book uh called the

Gap in the game so it's a great story

about I mean it's a self-help book but

the concept is that a lot of especially

the high achieving types the

entrepreneurs they have a tendency to

look only at how far Fallen how far

they've fallen short from their goal as

to how far they've actually come and it

is written by a Christian like he

alludes to that a number of times so

it's not overtly a Christian book but

it's an interesting concept and a lot of

the patients that I see in my practice

that are overachievers they have a

tendency to fall into adrenal fatigue

which is where suddenly they just don't

have the energy to go get through their

day because they're trying to do it all

in their own strength that's right what

you're describing is just this place of

peace and rest and recognition that

we're connected to an infinite power

source and we don't have to do it all

ourselves and we can right now it's a

journey and it's it's exciting to see

what it is in front of us in any given

day that's right and it also gives us

the freedom to work a little bit

differently and I think with a little

more uh like to actually do the work

better when we need our work to be okay

when what we're doing is where we get

our sense of value and meaning then like

failure is terrifying if I fail like

what does that say about me if my very

identity is wrapped into this but if my

identity is outside of that thing and

I'm now fully satisfied I have a deep

meaning today whether I'm resting or

working now when I do pick up work I can

actually do it to serve the work if that

makes sense not need the work I'm free

to take risks even if the risk fails

which usually produces some of the best

work when you really are free to like

just try new things and go it might be

terrible and if it is I'm like cool

that's fine because I'm not tied to this

thing that's not what I live for we're

actually going to produce better work

from a place of less anxiety and stress

because we're not living for the work

living for the passion or the thing that

we think is our purpose when we can

remember you know I'm made for a person

that doesn't change whether I fail or

succeed today so I can now be free to

work hard and well

absolutely so and I feel like you're

alluding to the concept of whether or

not our work has become an idol like

something that is the the main focus of

our lives and anything we put in that

place is going to ultimately end up

enslaving us whether it's else for sure

so how does our world in general lie to

us about this like how what role does

social media play in causing people to

just subtly think that I should be doing

this that or the other yeah

there's a couple things that come to

mind

um I think our we have a extremely high

exposure to what other people are doing

because of social media and that

produces the question is what I'm doing

enough it's the same thing that happened

when I was on tour with Jimmy I really

didn't have any aspiration to be an

author or be in the public light at all

um but when I was put in that space with

somebody else it was like by comparison

what I was doing looked really like

pitiful like what is this accomplishing

and that was before social media existed

the way that it does now and so now I

think everybody's feeling that we're

seeing uh our peers do all sorts of

things so that's one factor the other

factor is the technological

technological advancements in the last

even just 10 years

are wild and have made everything

possible even just from writing books uh

I've written a couple now and it used to

be that you needed a publisher to do

that well you don't anymore you just

need an Amazon seller account and you

put that manuscript in there they will

print it for you ship it for you

advertise it for you if you pay them

enough all the things the same thing

with podcasting same thing with music

it's really just a huge Buffet out there

of opportunity so the combination of I'm

seeing more people do things than ever

and I could go do that thing if I wanted

there's no barriers anymore

um gosh that just screams at us and

makes a basic ordinary day that's a good

day of doing good works for God that he

set before you look like failure what

did I do today I have nothing to show

for it you know I what I cared for my

sick kid I had a conversation with my

neighbor I made a meal for somebody at

church or whatever the thing is that all

of a sudden a glorious day right done

whatever you do do for the glory of God

that's live for the glory of God with

him in his right place is our purpose

something extremely meaningful that will

accomplish much fruit for the kingdom

all of a sudden that day looks like a

bad day if we're not careful if we let

that lie to us and tell us that purpose

and purposeful living comes from doing

great things that are seen by other

people that are postable and

instagramable that's not what purpose is

found it's not found in our verbs it's

not found in what we do it's found in

who we know and

that doesn't have the same measurability

and so it takes a lot of faith to walk

that way a lot of constant reminders of

what really does matter in life

right so and how do you balance this

concept of like be okay where you are

with what you're doing each individual

day with like I should have a single

unique purpose in my life like do you

believe in that concept that everybody

has one thing that like one big thing I

guess that God has put before them or is

it a whole lot of little things or how

do you answer that question yeah

um I actually believe that we all have

the same purpose so I would say and that

probably rubs a lot of people the wrong

way but uh and you can read my book and

read my argument and then write me an

email and I would love to hear from any

of your listeners about it and have a

great conversation

um because I did a lot of interviews for

this book and I pitched that to people

and they were like I don't like what you

just said I'm like I totally get it

um because so anyway here's my point uh

I think the scriptures are clear that

our purpose

is God it's a noun we exist for him and

I have the same purpose as you you exist

for God I exist for God now does that

mean our lives are going to look exactly

the same no but I don't think the

diverse ways we live

are our purpose I don't think they can

be I think as soon as you take purpose

and place it anywhere other than God

um you have embraced a worldview that is

a from a place of privilege that

excludes large uh sections of people in

the world uh children people who are at

the end of their life maybe on their

deathbed people who are sick and

suffering whose job is just to receive

care every day the disabled Community

people in poverty like there are whole

groups of people on the planet many of

them believers who don't have the option

to even consider what's the unique thing

I've made to do they have things to do

in front of them and that's all that's

it they don't have choices like we do

and so if we're going to believe this

message that I have something unique in

me that I need to live out it's actually

a place of privilege so that's my big

one of my big problems with it

um but I do think there are things only

I can do and things that only you can do

that's that longing for something unique

to do I think is good and I think is

god-given but

um we are not the designers of that that

makes sense it's in the heart of God to

um create our unique circumstances so

when I ask myself that question what can

only I do here are the first things that

come to my mind

only I can walk with God me and God

right a relationship

is two people communing together no one

else can do that for me no one else can

facilitate my relationship with him only

I can be the wife to Jimmy only I can be

the mom to my five kids no one else can

play that role only I am the next door

neighbor of the two people living on

either side of my house who happen to

not know Jesus like that's a huge thing

only I have been put in this particular

part of the South Dallas area in this

school with my kids teacher and yes only

I have my unique set of circumstances

and the ability to write and the

opportunities to write that is a part of

it but I hope that just it opens your

mind and go wow there's so many things

only I can do I really do every moment

of my my life is utterly unique and that

means I need to show up to each moment

in my life with a real sense of gravity

like only I am in this conversation with

the cashier at the the grocery store

right now who happened to share this

detail that her child's in the hospital

what does God have right now but behind

all that is a god orchestrate eating

great plans for his people through his

people it's not actually in me that I

have to look in inside myself and figure

out what's the unique thing I was made

to do I do think all of us have unique

contributions to make to the world I

just don't see any command in Scripture

that we need to go figure that out yeah

well absolutely it's really interesting

the way you describe that because as

you're talking I'm thinking like most of

us when we ask the question of what is

my purpose we're zooming out we're

trying to see the whole forest and we're

saying what a great thing are we

supposed to do and you're zooming in and

you're saying what's the tree that is

right in front of me that I'm walking

past that I should be be focusing on and

it's just like that relational Journey

that day-to-day kind of a thing that's

great yeah the other thing I really

liked about what you said about the the

concept of it is a place of privilege to

be able to act to ask that kind of a

question when I study the Middle Ages

boy those people I don't know they could

really do is I mean and that's true for

today too but especially you know way

back when when people were basically

just spending all of their time and

energy just trying to meet their basic

needs and not die I mean that's right

and this idea of as as we get further

and further along in terms of technology

that buys us more freedom it almost

makes sense of paralysis because you

know when you have too many options how

do you know which one to choose it can

be really overwhelming if you think of

it that way of like anything is possible

therefore where do I even start so

that's right and none of us want to

waste our lives we want our lives to

count and and we also are trying to

immediately see the end of the story

right now you know it's like the people

in our Bible that we study were given

the privilege of looking at their lives

and seeing how it mattered but they

didn't even know that you know I think

about the midwives in the beginning of

the book of Exodus who are you know

they're told to kill the baby boys and

they don't do it but you know Moses

doesn't come back to set the people

agree for 80 more years after that I

mean for all they know nothing changed

but what we know is God used their

activity so that Moses would survive and

so that the scene was set for a huge

part of Redemptive history and of course

they got the end of the story eventually

probably when they're with God in heaven

and we may not get the end of our story

and we have to be okay with that I think

we want the instant gratification of

seeing all the ways our life matters

right now but Jesus is constantly in the

New Testament looking at his followers

and giving them like you said a very

Zoomed In Focus pray for Daily Bread

don't ask for monthly provision just

today right and follow me not figure out

what to do with your life Peter when you

leave your net here's the the 10-year

plan of what you're going to do next he

just looks like just stay with me

I mean that's really the command you

know that you see at the end of Jesus's

life as he's getting ready to go to the

cross in John 15 he looks at his

followers and said apart from me you can

do nothing

so stay with me abide with me and fruit

will come it's a promise so as long as

we tether ourselves to the person of

Christ and we stay close to him the

promise is you will be fruitful your

life will make an impact it will be

effective it will produce fruit you

don't actually have to try to make it

happen you just plug into him stay close

and even on days off in some way that we

don't understand your life is making an

impact because you've plugged into the

impact maker and you'll see at the end

of the day at the end of your life

you'll be able to see that maybe you'll

get little glimpses here now of how it

makes a difference but for most people

even in the scriptures they did not know

how their activities mattered in the

final estimation

um we do now we have that privileged

place to see that but they don't

absolutely so the verse that comes to me

is the trust in the Lord with all your

heart

trusting him and he will direct your

cause I probably screwed that up a

little bit but I mean that concept you

walk with him bit by bit and make sure

you don't run ahead and he's going to

make sure he keeps you on track even if

as you say you don't necessarily see the

end picture but that's what trusting is

all about yes

for what have I not asked you that you

want to make sure you leave with our

audience

oh

um I would say my one thought

um to leave people with would be an

encouragement to take back your

imagination from the culture

there are so many images being shown to

us every day all the time of what makes

life meaningful and significant and I

just don't think you can live in the way

that we're talking about without a

healthy imagination in a different way

it really does require me every day as I

mentioned when my kids are sick I have

to use my imagination to go God you are

looking over from Heaven who are you

looking at and then calling the

attention of the Angels maybe say come

come look at this what is exciting you I

know that Faith excites you God help me

to walk by faith in this moment and

remember I have an audience it might not

be my Instagram audience or some podcast

audience but I have a better audience

and it does matter and I I really have

to Steward my mind and my imagination to

to live in the ways that we've been

talking about and that does take some

effort to kind of like

take off some things and go I'm gonna

not take that as what is Meaningful and

Lord how can I retake my imagination

with you and your kingdom and mind and

live that way because this is a life

where you know the new New Testament

says we walk by faith not sight and that

requires a healthy imagination to do

that well so that would be kind of my

parting encouragement

where can people go to learn more about

you

yeah you can go to Jimmy and kelly.com

that's where my husband and I share a

website our podcast and books and all

sorts of other things are on there where

you can follow us individually so you

could head over there and find a lot of

resources related to some of these

things we've talked about

thanks so much Kelly this has been very

encouraging appreciate it thanks Lauren

so much for having me are you looking

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